Chord notes as scale lock works best with triads but gets confusing when you come to use voicings or chords with more than 3 scale tones. This is because they follow the order in which they occur in the chords. It might have been more helpful if they didn’t follow this order especially when constructing melodies. I could think that there may have been better ways to do this. For example do them according to their position in the chord in a sequential pattern starting at 1 for root, then 2 for the iii, 3 for the v etc. Or perhaps have a complete scale and just highlight these notes whilst also showing the in between notes as well. Sometimes chord notes alone are not enough. Both opportunities would have been nice. Of course there is a workaround available by using full scale lock and I know that I am just being picky but the more the better if like me you are not too conversant with keyboard.
However I think chord tone could be very useful but when using more unusual voicings outside just the triads it tends to be a bit confusing and easy to get lost with it.
Just bear in mind that you don’t always want a melody to have big jumps in it sometimes closer connections work best with melodic phrases so they don’t have to necessarily follow the order in which they occur in the harmonic element. I personally don’t construct a melody they way I work with chords.
I think what I am getting at is having each scale defer to the white notes of the C maj scale as it currently does but then further integrating this with the chord tones. So for example if you are playing a set of bound chords in the scale of C maj and when you come to play a D min chord for example the root note D could be made to fall on the actual C note of the actual keyboard so you are starting the C maj scale on the D note. Then the same for the E minor chord again the C maj scale begins on the E note. So the actual keyboard C note becomes an E note. This method would hold each scale degree of a iii, v, vii and a 9th note occur in the same familiar place for any chord you are selecting in the bound sections of Scaler. The same relationship that these notes have to the Root Chord could then be maintained throughout any of the diatonic chords that you go on to select hence the relationship of these notes to the chord changes would always be as the Root, 3rd,5th etc of the changing chords in this way you also have the benefits of also being able to use the passing/connecting tones derived from the underlying scale( C maj in this example). I think that this would make it a more straightforward system than the current approach and requires less mental agility to decipher what is happening. I know that this can be achieved because I have seen it done.
This method also makes midi programming a breeze because you can basically use the same reliable midi notes of I, iii, v and vii (keyboard notes of C, E, G, and B) work for you whilst the underlying chords change but their relationship to the changing chords remains constant and stable.
Yes I get that agree but we want to be able to repeat those tones in octaves so to fit it all in we need to place them as they are. Does that make sense?
No I don’t really understand. I have seen it achieved but obviously I do not want to disclose where out of respect for what you guys have achieved with Scaler. I am not about to promote a competitor on your forums. However it is possible and it is an extremely useful tool and one Scaler really should have in it’s arsenal.
Re reading your post I may have misunderstood you, maybe I am a little confused, thinking through it I think what you are saying is maintain scale degrees on their respective white keys. That’s all good but what happens with artists chord sets or other chords in scaler that don’t follow conventions or diatonic? No thirds, flattened 9th etc?
I have seen it done whereby new notes are introduced to the scale governed by the chord tones. Out of scale chords are made possible. From what I have seen this is done in an incremental fashion repeating the true underlying note of the scale ( note that is true to the scale) and adding an incremental note to the scale so the true scale note is included even though it is not actually in the chord and the next note is augmented or diminished . I think that’s how it has been achieved.
Yes it is about maintaining these scale degrees relative to the respective chords so always occurring on the Root, iii. V etc of the scale and keyboard whilst chords changes influence what these notes will be. So for example in a D min chord occurring in a C maj scale the respective positions of the root, iii and v (D F & A) would occur at the C, E & G positions of the white key scale and hence on the actual physical keyboard itself. This would change or at least the notes in these respective positions would change if a new chord such as A min was subsequently selected. Does that make sense? Altered chords such as the 9ths and 11 and 13 will use the in between notes anyways and do not necessarily have to be notated an octave above not for melodic purposes as opposed to harmonically where they would be occurring at a +1 octave. The purpose is simply to make them available for melodies as opposed to their harmonic functions. That can be determined anyway by their sonic relationships to the underlying chord.
It is possible! Obviously I am not familiar with the programming aspect but it can be achieved irrespective of chords that do not fit in conventional terms. #5, b5, b 9 etc. It’s a challenge but it can be achieved.
I think I am maybe onto the basis of how it could be achieved. That is by using enharmonic notes so a G# is Ab for example. So in a scale you can only have 7 notes before returning to Root. So for example taking the C minor scale you have notes C D Eb F G Ab Bb and you wanting to alter you progression by introducing a median of say Eb minor chord-simply adding the note to the scale makes too many notes in scale because you have to make it 7. In order to do this use enharmonic notes. So take the start point as the Eb note. Instead of the C minor scale going Eb F G and having to also include the new Gb note now let it be Eb F F# then replace the next note ( that would have been an Ab) with it’s enharmonic equivalent G# then A# C D. This then keeps the scale down to the seven notes maximum. You have now achieved an altered C minor scale that introduces the altered notes for the new chord but is still basically a C min with a slight alteration. By only having the 7 notes using enharmonic equivalents you can make the scale fit to the white notes.
To diminish Eb use G# A. To b9 you might have D#F F# G# A# C D. It don’t matter what you call the notes you know where to find them because of familiarity of the white note C scale. You are not really trying to recreate a scale and then add to it the extensions what you are trying for is to put the chords tones into the white keys over an octave! What Scaler 2 currently does is to shift these scale tones to positions C D & E on the white key scale and deal with the chord extensions as a separate mapping. In my opinion this is the wrong approach both educationally and creatively. Educationally the right approach would be to maintain positions of scale tones at the point at which they naturally occur so Root, iii, v etc. Creatively Scaler 2 is missing the point when it comes to developing melodies. By only offering the chord tones and extensions as separate entities rather than integrate the 2 into a useful scale you seem to be limiting the opportunity to be fully creative using melodic principles.
Scale logic pretty much goes out the window when you start to throw in out of scale chords. You either have to try to find a scale where the outside chord naturally occurs or make one up by taking the existing scale and either augmenting or diminishing notes of that scale by which token you are constructing new and perhaps not naturally occurring entities. I am certain that you will know all this stuff anyway. So when you come across an outside chord like Eb minor b9 in the scale of C minor for example you can’t just add the new notes to an existing scale because you are limited to having only 7 notes instead what you present is a totally new entity entirely when that outside chord is in focus based upon augmenting and diminishing tones of the scale into which you are throwing your outsider.