How having Scaler playing AAS Strum-GS II

Hi
I almost completed the 2nd video-tutorial that explain how having Scaler feeding both chords and riff in AAS Strum-GS II (and likely other guitar plugins changing a bit some setting)

It is more or less the transposition in video of what I said here

But I have to polish the video making it shorter and more content-rich so I’ll upload it tomorrow

Good night :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

BTW @TMacD these videotutorials are a nightmare : I cannot count how many takes I did ending to a blind alley, and cursing at some stuff in the DAW that wasn’t properly set YUK!

2 Likes

Thank you for trying!
Some of us want you to know that we appreciate your effort and look forward to seeing how you do it.
I really want to learn how to use Scaler with a Guitar Vst and make it sound good.
Thanx again
The Fishman.

1 Like

thanks for endorsement @tfmc :grin:

I hope to be able tonight to complete the 1st part of this tutorial

It will explain 1 of the 2-3 workflows that I found useful to play a guitar with a keyboard, making the “sound” closer to a real guitar and not a keyboard

From the many video I saw indeed, playing one intrument (the guitar) with a totally different “physicsis” (the keyboard) is very hard, and almost impossible sometimes without special hardware tools, like the SWAM sax in case you want doing sax parts

See you later

I’m looking forward to this Your point about ‘physics’ is well made - the differences between the two instruments is very significant.

One key issue is that on a piano, a given pitch can be produced only by one key. On a guitar, one octave of a C major scale of the same pitch can be played by at least 15 different fingerings across the fingerboard. Although all the notes are at the same pitch, the tonality changes dramatically depending on which string some given note is played on, how close it is to the ‘nut’, gauge of the strings used, etc.

That’s just playing a note. There are then the things that you can’t do at all on a piano e.g.hammer on , pull off / harmonics / mute / plectrum angle / position relative to bridge / vibrato / bending / slides. So it’s a pretty big challenge

So far I’ve made no inroads into this, but I’m looking forward to learning from your experience with ‘Strum’ !

PS: I have NI’s Picked Acoustic, and it does have some things modelled like string noise and slides (but it’s hard work…)

You forgot to mention the impossibility to bend the piano body for the vibrato he he

Even if being like Hulk will let you bend it, with the annoying side-effect to destroy the wooden case
:rofl:

2 Likes

I have requested a number of times, separate midi channel output for each string/note of chord. Most decent guitar vsts have a “Midi Mode”, in which the channel of the incoming midi note is considered, and output to the appropriate string.

1 Like

Ho, ho. ::slight_smile: I’d click the ‘like’ button twice if I could …

1 Like

I support this, and it would be a great help.

It still leaves a number of gaps (theoretically) with a keyboard as input, though. For example, with NI’s Picked Acoustic, I cannot see any way of changing tonality depending on string for the same pitch. For instance, playing C major up the string from the third fret on the A , and the same on the 8th fret of the low E string sound very different, but the NI product doesn’t seem to model this. Because of this, I’m not sure it’s possible to work out the appropriate string just from the pitch of an inbound note.

An alternative, which I have is https://www.jamorigin.com/ which converts audio from your axe to midi. I have yet to get into it in depth, but on the face of it, it seems possibly a better way to get something in rather than a keyboard, if you are a guitar player.

My main keyboard is a Roland JD800 (20years old).The lead sound designer was Eric Persing, now CEO of Spectrasonics. He did a ‘wailing guitar’ patch which made the best of the synth’s architecture. There is an example of this at the end (4:52) of this showpiece for how the instrument’s sounds at "Water to Fire" - Roland JD-800 New Age theme - YouTube

… or more in a ‘metal’ vein at ROLAND JD 800 | WAILING GUITAR | Keyboard solo by LEONARDO - YouTube

Interesting (even if likely too complex for my tastes :grin:)
Can you make a video explaining this?

For example, for Amplesound guitars (also same for Orangetree and Real series) :

Input A2 on midi channel 1.
Result : Vst outputs A note, low E string at fret 5.

Input A2 on midi channel 2.
Result : Vst outputs A note, A string open.

Same notes, different samples.

2 Likes

I also have the NI series of guitars. They are excellent, but don’t really lend the ability to force strings like most guitar vst. There is the “fret position” which could possibly be automated? Would be a nightmare to program though.

The guy in the video is using a controller, but the same principle applies if it were Scaler sending the midi information instead.

1 Like

I hadn’t heard of any of the vst’s you mention, and this is a very informative post - thanks. I got the NI instrument because it had nice sounding demos, but as you say it lacks the ability to do the things I spoke of in my comments.

I might hook up the JD as an external instrument to Live / Scaler to use the wailing guitar patch, but al that latency stuff i a bit of a hassle …

:thinking: that guy seems perfectly able to play a guitar, so I cannot understand why bothering with a virtual guitar…

Rather, I would go for virtual effects to spare money in amps & pedals

My situation is different anyway: I am tempted sometimes to re-buy a guitar (and a bass maybe) and restart using it (as I did in the past) but a few issues stops me:
the money needed to buy decent instruments
the space they need
the noise they do even if used through a PC
and last but not least the fingertips wear that I am no more willing to cope with :grinning:

This is why 2 years ago I collected a DAW and the basic virtual instruments I love more: guitar, bass, drums and some keyboards
(nobody sample-based because my PC cannot withstand)

BTW, my opinion about virtual instruments is that they must have a specialized AI because I have no time/willing to study & practise hard to master them, and this is why I use Scaler to drive Strum-GS in AI mode (not the keyboard mode)

for example, here is the Broomstick Bass GUI

All keys in the red circle can be automatized, but to me is a waste of time considering that its AI works like a charm without doing anything…
:grin:

What controller is he using ? I think You Rock were maybe the cheapest low latency devices, but monophonic, I think. The Roland GR55GK is an alternative (have you any experience of this?) but it’s hard to slip £650+ past the “Boss” without triggering punitive retaliatory purchases by her :frowning: (typically with a multiplier of about 1.5)

1 Like

Not sure what it is, but basically it just sends out a different midi channel for each string, regardless of which note/fret he plays.

If you look at the “fret board” display in Scaler, it doesn’t output what the display shows for some reason. Looks more piano orientated.

I maybe should have noted that the JD800 had both after touch and resonant filters, so making it more suited for attempting to emulate a guitar; the former can be used to move between sample layers as well as changing any of the filters. Low end keyboard midi controllers like my Arturia Kelab MkII are nice, but they don’t support after touch.

Glue. Bostik plastic glue works well for me.

I hope that you let the glue dry before…
:grin: :rofl:

Hi guys

I completed the Part I and II

The Part III was completed, but I realized (after :cold_face:) that I did a mistake YUK!

Well, tomorrow I’ll go to the mountains to try to see and listen the deer bells and I think I will be unable to complete the Part III, but I’m quite sure it will be ready for Monday

@TMacD I realized that I need speaking during the video, because it gives me the “rhythm” so now I record short parts, that can be easily remade, and at the end I join all together

See you later

Have a good trip to the mountains.
My wife and I are headed out tonight with my field recorder to (hopefully) capture some elk bugling clips. Tis that time of year.
Ciao!

1 Like