I feel Scaler is so close of being a real game-changer program , but currently its frustrates me

[Mr.Talchik]

Hi,
I feel Scaler is so close of being a real game-changer program, but currently, it frustrates me, the user interface is almost impossible. Everything that is needed is already inside the software, but if I want to change something in the presets (to find a different chord in a preset progression for example) the task is so frustrating.
This program can help and save me a whole lot of time, but right now im struggling every time I use it, and I’m using it for almost a year, and already watched hours upon hours of tutorials.
I’m a professional composer\producer that unfortunately is a guitar player, and I think the Scaler idea is exactly for people like me, among the rest, a program that should help composers, not just a chord generator, It claims to do many things, but something in the product design makes it impossible, or at least really difficult, and again, its a huge miss opportunity, because with few little tweaks I’m sure it could.
There are so many little things to improve that I don’t know where to begin, I think in general, if I want to do a more specific things, like change chords to something I imagine in my head, or change patterns to fit exactly to what I aim, or use it in between parts that I already composed, or even If I have ideas of my own to new parts and want Scaler to help me, the mission become frustrating.
I’ll give some things I think should be improved:

1. Please make a chord substitutions section - I don’t mean chord tensions like you have, I mean substitutions, “family” of the same chord, or in context between 2 chords, or in context of the scale, or outside the scale but with context to the progression I already have. I’m seeking something kind of similar to what you did with the “suggest” button, only with substitutions, or advanced as you did with the modulation, but dedicated to substitutions, I don’t mind both actually.
   For example - for Cmaj in the major scale, Am7 or Am9 is so basic and the only place I can find it is in - “rightclick-chord substitutions”- and that is almost the only option I have there, and I cannot hear it before I click!
   Why? Should I guess how it’s going to sound? and in addition, after I click on it, it plays in a totally different range than my progression in section C, so I have to mess around in the edit mode, and after that, I don’t think it fits the composition and I need to try another thing.
   This is a really clumsy operation to what I believe is a basic function, I think you really have to develop in that area and make chord substitutions something that is fun and easy to do. This is also the most urgent area for me, changing chords easily (to chords that are in the same “family”) could make a huge improvement in the software.
2. In the mediants area - why I can’t hear the chord before I commit? this section is almost useless if I cannot hear the chord before I choose, it’s more of a gamble game of chords than something i can actually use, just because I cannot hear the chords before I commit. long story short - please let us hear the chord before we choose it.
3. Please make everywhere on the screen that you could raise\lower octaves\invertions. It’s really annoying that chords I try appear in different ranges, make this option available in every section and every division even with a lock option so that the chords I’ll try will fit in range into the progression I already have in “section C”. this would do so much help.
4. “Maintain current scale\root” doesn’t work properly, it sometimes locks the scale\root and sometimes does not.
   Also, please make a “maintain range” so that new options will fit in range to the progression I have in “section C”.
   Also please make a clickable combination of “maintain - root\scale\range”. I would like to maintain both the scale and the root so that I wouldn’t have to choose between the two.
5. In “preform” give us a way to change the pattern. For example one of those patterns almost fits to my composition, but it needs a bit of tweaking, instead of wasting time trying to find maybe something else fits, I want some kind of arpeggiator or a way to change a thing or two manually.
   I know I can “midi capture” it and then change it in the DAW, but then if continue to a new part, with Scaler, I lose the performance, and I have to do it manually time after time, thing that eventually will make me give up on Scaler and continue without it.
6. Please get rid of everything in the GUI that doesn’t have a practical purpose so it will be much easy to understand what’s going on. for example - “right-click - preview chord”… why do I need that in the right-click? I can just click on the screen. there are many other no-use buttons there, or things I can do in multiple places, that overall it’s really distracting and over-complicating stuff.

Sorry for being too harsh maybe, It’s because I really appreciate the potential and intentions of this program, and it’s so close of being a real game-changer in how to access composition, I mean it in the scale of the midi invention, for real. but as I said, right now I stumble every time I want to do something serious with Scaler, and it’s a huge missed opportunity.
anyway, I thank the developers a lot, and appreciate your efforts big time, it’s almost the perfect program

[Hulkko]

I think there are some good points there. I myself have wondered about some of the same things that would make the workflow easier and faster. Hopefully there will be improvements to those as well at some point. All the time, Scaler is evolving.

[ClaudioPorcellana]

asking is way better than ranting
and ranting multiple times, in wrong areas sometimes, is not polite to me
and, if you really used Scaler since one years, considering it useless is absurd

[Mr.Talchik]

You are right, I was much harsher in my first post, it was flagged, I accepted it and rewrote my current post to be more objective and polite. In my current post, I do not think I call Scaler useless, but my frustration is real. I think I know about 80% of the program, yet whenever I try to compose with it I run into problems with even the simplest of tasks.
With my frustration, I tried not only to rant, but also to point out to real subjects that could be improved.
Scaler is an amazing program with great potential that, with a few tweaks, could be what it claims to be. But unfortunately, despite all the potential this program has, I’m unable to do more than find a few chords on it.
And I accept your criticism, I’ll delete my other post in the “general discussion” category, Although my point there was to find solutions to the problems.

[Mr.Talchik]

All the time, Scaler is evolving - Yes, that’s why I take my time writing to the developers. Considering how close it is to what it claims to be, I hope the developers could address the real issues in the next updates.

[ed66]

@Mr.Talchik

Please make a chord substitutions section

Could this be added to the MOD page?

@Mr.Talchik

the mediants area - why I can’t hear the chord before I commit?

I think you can, just click on the chord and it will play, just as on the MAIN page in Section C. @davide has a video on this on YouTube.

@Mr.Talchik

Please make everywhere on the screen that you could raise\lower octaves\invertions.

I agree that this could be useful on the MOD page, but it is available on both the CHORD page and the EDIT page. By right-clicking on the chord blck and selecting EDIT CHORD the CHORD page is opened. Obviously this can slow down the workflow a bit, but Scaler is evolving and maybe the Dev Team could consider your request for Scaler 3, if not before?

@Mr.Talchik

please make a “maintain range”

Is this voice grouping? if not could give a more detailed example, please?

@Mr.Talchik

there are many other no-use buttons there,

I suspect that some of this duplication is to enhance the workflow and accommodate different approaches to using the system (e.g. your request to

@Mr.Talchik

make everywhere on the screen that you could raise\lower octaves\invertions

and others will have arisen as Scaler has evolved. But could you enumerate these, please?

[Mr.Talchik]

@ed66

@Mr.Talchik

Please make a chord substitutions section

Could this be added to the MOD page?

Add it to the CHORD section. This section should evolve into something much more advanced than what it is now. Similar to what they did with the MOD section where you have options to choose from -

1. keep the tensions area
2. substitutions in the “family” of the chosen chord
3. substitutions in the context of your progressions (between the chords that come before and after the chosen one)
4. substitutions in the context of your scale
5. substitutions that borrowed outside the scale but have a context to your progression.

maybe even simplify what I suggested here, but that direction certainly will solve a lot of problems.

In addition, they can do a “quick access” to substitutions similar to what they done here, only with chord substitutions -

that would improve the workflow.

[Mr.Talchik]

@ed66

@Mr.Talchik

the mediants area - why I can’t hear the chord before I commit?

I think you can, just click on the chord and it will play, just as on the MAIN page in Section C. @davide has a video on this on YouTube.

No, if I click or right-click on the chord, it immediately opens a new line, even in this video it happens. And in addition to that, I cannot clear my choice, only clear the whole progress.

@ed66

@Mr.Talchik

Please make everywhere on the screen that you could raise\lower octaves\invertions.

I agree that this could be useful on the MOD page, but it is available on both the CHORD page and the EDIT page. By right-clicking on the chord blck and selecting EDIT CHORD the CHORD page is opened. Obviously this can slow down the workflow a bit, but Scaler is evolving and maybe the Dev Team could consider your request for Scaler 3, if not before?

Yes, the only place where it is perfect is in the CHORD area, they really should copy this concept to all areas,(I would start with section A to lock to section C, but it really necessary everywhere inside the program).
even the MOD area is not perfect, because if one chord in my progression is outside the range and I want to find progression to it, there is no option to lower\upper the options it gives, it only gives a general range.

@ed66

@Mr.Talchik

please make a “maintain range”

Is this voice grouping? if not could give a more detailed example, please?

No, voice grouping is great, but it affects all the chords in the software, even your section C. I want option here, to maintain the ranges of further searching -

@ed66

@Mr.Talchik

there are many other no-use buttons there,

I suspect that some of this duplication is to enhance the workflow and accommodate different approaches to using the system (e.g. your request to

yeah, the idea is right, but a lot of them just complicate stuff, I don’t need a right-click option for previewing the chord, the most obvious function is to click on the chord, no need for another option there. It goes for many many duplications that there is no need for them, the idea is to simplify the program, and even though the idea is good, practically it is just overcomplicating it.

@ed66

@Mr.Talchik

make everywhere on the screen that you could raise\lower octaves\invertions

and others will have arisen as Scaler has evolved. But could you enumerate these, please?

Im not sure what you mean here, but ill try to elaborate on it:

1. in section A its a must, even in B.
2. in MOD section it should be improved, they should add this option -
   

I think after there would be options to “lock” the range or manually do it, we could think how to do it better, but right now that there is no option at all to do so, really makes it harder to find the right chords.

[ed66]

I was just wondering if you could list the areas of duplication that you think are redundant. I was also just wondering if the duplications are to accommodate different workflows.

Finally you are yourself suggesting adding duplication, although I think your suggestion of adding inversions and pitch adjustments to all the pages a good idea.

[Mr.Talchik]

first of all, I edited my response to you and added answers to all your questions
The “raise/lower octaves etc.” option is not found in a lot of sections, and this is a must if the workflow is to be improved. I don’t recommend adding duplications.
ill try to give more examples of duplicated buttons or buttons that make no sense to me, there is plenty but ill stick with a few:

add to selection - no need, i can simply mark the chord
explore scales - no need, I can go to SCALES, this makes much more sence.
preview chord - I already wrote about it

i can go to detect, makes much more sense

Why do I need them both? the preference is already a really complicated section that I didn’t figure it out completely, I’m sure there are many more stuff there that I can find easily in the main GUI, so why add more and more duplicated options?

It makes no sense to me that I’ll choose chords without hearing them first, which makes this button pretty useless, moreover part of those I can find in CHORD.

I need to check everything under the hood in the program because I’m not familiar with everything. But right now, most of the stuff I do check is just another option to do something I already do differently, not advanced stuff like I was expecting.
If it matters, I’ll make a full list of those things, and maybe I’ll learn something along the way

[ed66]

So looking at your examples most of them relate to options in context menus which you only see if you right-click.

The other example you show is on the Settings menu, which of course is used to set default settings. As the Settings menu sets defaults it has to be included. Where these settings are also set in Scaler say in a context menu, or simplty as a setting (e.g. the Perform dialogues) these are then set for the individual instance of Scaler and override the values in the Settings menu for that instance, which I think makes good practice for most users.

I hope that the Dev Team do not change this approach as I do not think it really impact the workflow for users: certainly I am not aware of many people raising this as an issue.

I agree that when right-clicking on a chord in Section C to find the “Common Chords” it would be helpful to preview the chords and I do also agree that it may be better to expand this functionality in the CHORDS page, but lets see what the Dev Team has in Scaler 3.

[Mr.Talchik]

Thanks Ed, you’re a real helper! I appreciate it!
I think I don’t really understand the differences between all of those (where the red circle is) -

to all of those -

I don’t mean generally for the setting tab, I understand the importance of saving defaults and have no problem with that.
Could you please clarify what the differences are between the “strumming” function in the preferences tab, and the “strumming” function on the main GUI?
the only difference I see is that they added in the preference - “latch - chord only - play quantize” which they could easily add to the main GUI.
if there is more to that please guide me to the differences ill appreciate it.
The GUI is already very cluttered, and I cannot understand why the same functions are made twice. If there are no actual differences, this seems like a ‘labyrinth of mirrors’. I feel its adds up with all those other things that I wrote before that make this program “messy”.

even this simple thing, why do some of the tabs open with a click, and some of them are open from the beginning? It may seem nonsense to some, but it looks to me like a glitch, sloppy design (sorry for the rough term), and makes things look (and feel) unorganized.

[thomass]

Most of what @Mr.Talchik says fits to my needs as well. It would be really helpful to reduce complexity and make things available all over. Great ideas.