Is anyone else interested in (or currently) creating custom Scaler instruments/sounds?

I’m working on creating some customized and multi-instrument sounds files for Scaler and was wondering if anyone else was doing the same or interested in what I’m finding.

I get it that in a typical DAW scenario, we’d accomplish this by routing Scaler into the various instruments or effects (as was designed). However, since I run in standalone mode quite often, I decided to tweak the internal sounds to create some additional options. Besides, I like a puzzle.

While the result can be suboptimal and the process a bit tedious, it is easy and straight forward. However, if no one else in interested, I’ll forgo the verbose details and just say…you can do it.

You figured out how to replace the internal sounds? I saw there were a bunch of .flac files. Is it as easy as just replacing the files with the same name? Ed’s already getting nervous from the other (XML) thread that users are reverse-engineering Scaler. Gotta be careful, some ToS expressly limit the legality of such activities.

There are effects and parameters tuned specifically for each sounds so Scaler will not blindly play your samples.

Depending on which sound you select Scaler will apply different enveloppes/FX. It is not designed to create sampled instruments.

You can play around on your end if you want but remember those are not supported use and might impact stability/performance.

If this is something people want to be able to do, we could open this more in the future. Let us know…

Thanks Ed, I’d never blindly open that can of worms on you guys (like I thought I might with the recursive topic) I had a detailed post prepared (including your points above), but I decided to test the water a bit 1st…glad I did.

So…if people are playing around with this and understand the limitations and risks, lets leverage PMs to keep the noise down but still get our geek on. I just want my right hand to play louder than my left hand. :slight_smile:

I was just thinking about this a bit more in-depth, and I strongly advise against it. It could trigger unexpected behavior and potentially damage your hardware and/or your ears.

If you want to experiment with this I would suggest using a sampler, muting Scaler and routing its MIDI output.

I feel that might have been directed towards me, and the various posts I have made. I spent my life creating and exploiting the intellectual property vested in complex software, so I am aware more than most of its intrinsic value and the need to protect it. Also, I am an avid fan of Davide and his team and suspect than many users might not full appreciate the concepts the team has embodied and why it can be set apart from apparently similar products, which if I were to sum it up in 3 words, would be ‘facilitation, not creation’. Let me set out my position for clarity.

1 Firstly, my comments about ‘back engineering’ were clearly stated to be in the context of a data file which is a legitimate output of scaler - the state dump. I merely generated an XSD schema, which is a pre-requisite to subsequently read the file and print things. This can only be done in a limited way because types have to be inferred and I have no knowledge of other metadata within the system.

2 I also stated that I compared state files to see what the changes were when parameters in Scaler were changed. I see nothing inherently malevolent in that,

3 My goals have been clearly stated, related to auditioning the bazillion possible outputs from Scaler, to try and home in on a small subset which might be relevant to the music I’d like to make. I have now been doing this more efficiently by methodically listening to a combination and either saving the state or moving on to the next.

4 The result is many xml files with the only identity being a timestamp in the file name. I could, of course, rename the file on saving, and give it a lengthy name with details of how it was formed. This is as time consuming (and very unwieldy) as maintaining a paper/excel list, and unlike an excel file, can’t be easily ordered or searched.

5 So it seemed to me that it would be possible to produce a report/excel file from the XML - obtained by perfectly legitimate means from the software - to create the list. However, there is nothing in the state file which enables this to be done directly. So the approach I have taken is (for example) to produce otherwise identical files in different keys and look what changes; This enables me either to see what elements /attributes hold values or to identity the uuid of a value to create a ‘translation’ table for the things I’m interested in e.g. what uuid maps to ‘minor pentatonic’

6 This also facilitates my recording of ratings or notes in my created file against combinations. This probably won’t be incorporated as a function in Scaler (and IMHO, would be a mistake from a maintenance perspective for them to ever do so.)

7 I see none of this as being threatening to the Scaler owners, and I have been 100% open about this (and I’m not certain yet if it can be done). Ed did query why I’d suggested the time stamp and schema hook in the state file, and I was completely open with my response, and what I was exploring doing.

8 Finally, I respond on this point only because the word legality’ was used, as overseas users might not be familiar with this. Within the EU (and now the UK still) decompilation of binaries is permitted to create an interface with the software in question (‘interoperability’, which is what this is) , so if this were done, it wouldn’t be illegal. However, as I hope the forgoing has shown I have no plans to create an interface or link with the system in any way other by using (completely indirectly) the data export provided by the vendor.

9 Davide, Ed, jump in if relevant and please let ne know if you have any concerns. I will of course desist on a good faith basis from performing any activities that you feel are ultra vires.

PS The new avatar picture in fact no way resembles me. I am older and more ugly.

1 Like

On the topic of the post, I am of the view (in a minority ??) that the Scaler team should not bother too much about internal sounds. I use it standalone, but then to get to the finished track I’m always going to be using other soft synths (or indeed, hardware)

The fact of the matter is that to match the sort of sounds you get from current soft synths is incredibly complex, and (more importantly) very time consuming and expensive to do. I’m sure the team at Scaler could do a lot more, but my guess would be there would be a better return for each man day on continuing the evolution of the concepts of Scaler and not trying to compete in what is a tough market at the top.

So my two penneth (an English term…) would be that there are already a good range of (good enough) sounds to audition with and get an idea of how things will pan out when the track gets finished off and the pads are coming from Omnisphere (or whatever).
Signing off at 00:27 uk time …

1 Like

Ok all…great stuff as always and I apologize that my obsession with this very cool software has resulted in some unintended cycles.

Can I suggest we bring this thread to a close and I’ll post the feature request that prompted my digging in the 1st place. I just wanted to add an interesting sounding topline while playing in standalone mode. Since I can’t play very well I thought the least I could do is change the sounds of the 4th and 5th octaves a bit (where I typically tap away to my own delight). :slight_smile:

@Bernd Thanks for being the canary in the coal mine.
@Yorkerman I’m very interested in your area(s) of exploration… I followed some similar, albeit lower tech approaches while digging into the Studio One SoundSets to improve tagging and searching. I’ll definitely cycle back on your project.
@Ed1 can you trash this thread if and when you feel appropriate?

Thanks all…I love this stuff!

How are you running Scaler in Stand Alone mode? Which host? Most of the ones I’ve tried will let Scaler behave as normal at least for 1 instrument VST. You might be able to do something that way and still have a host that default to Scaler +1 on opening.

@jamieh glad you asked, as others have been curious as well, lo and behold, answers are beckoning. Now hurry and go there before this thread disappears into the abyss :wink:

1 Like

Nah, it wasn’t directed at you, @yorkeman , it was directed to poke @Ed1 :wink:
And since I am not representing the Scaler team (legally or else), nor am I a lawyer, or whatever you call them in England, my statement about “ToS” was meant in the sense of plural, Terms of ServiceS, the conditions for use in general, in the software industry. I speak from experience that poking around in some software products and publishing about it can get you in hot water, and yes, it depends on the jurisdiction. It was a general comment not intended to accuse or provoke a defense. I just kept with the spirit of this discussion thread to post something that I regret later and hope gets deleted soon :wink:

1 Like