Wishlist for Scaler 3.x for MIDI control

TMacD · June 6, 2021, 10:31pm

Unless I misunderstand what you are trying to do, there is pretty much no need to stop anything when changing performance related settings.

I do almost 100% of my recordings while tweaking settings and Scaler seamlessly transitions on the next key press or chord change. It is probably my favorite feature. Pretty much the only setting you can’t change seamlessly is the instrument…and you can do that with a little creativity.

Any of these settings can be changed while Scaler is looping a chord/pattern, playing chained patterns from the Pad view or while you are playing the keyboard latched or unlatched. It can also play an external midi piece while you tweak to your heart’s content. I mainly use the mouse or arrow keys but now I’m starting to record perform settings to a alphanumeric key and change that way. You can even turn binding on and off while playing to add even more texture.

The midi control is certainly limited but lets be clear that you can change all kinds if settings without stopping a performance. At least as I understand things.

EDIT: I did stumble onto something new while playing with this topic. If you have Settings/Perform mode set to FOLLOW, changes you make to perform settings while Scaler is playing will not take effect until the current pattern is finished playing. If you have it set to RETRIGGER, the change takes place on the next chord or key press

davide · June 7, 2021, 1:42am

This is actually a really important feature that we haven’t really covered, being able to keep the phrase position whilst changing chords rather than re-triggering to the start of the phrase makes for some amazing flexibility

TMacD · June 7, 2021, 3:32am

It is really cool! I’ve started to use the pad in smaller chunks (less than 8 chords) so I can trigger changes between patterns. Combined with the Humanize settings, the possibilities are
even more endless.

sj1 · June 7, 2021, 2:31pm

These comments are relevant and related I’m sure!

My original observation, which I should have better described, is that with Settings/Perform mode set to FOLLOW, if I have chord A playing a Performance (e.g. Arco) and I then change the Performance (e.g. to Doppio) nothing immediately happens.

If I stop chord A, then start chord B the new chord B will then play Doppio. Or, if I directly trigger chord B it will play Doppio.

The point being that I either need to stop and restart, or change chords, in order to get a new performance playing (with Settings/Perform mode set to FOLLOW).

I suppose I assumed (my bad!) that using follow would allow the performance to change completely “on the fly” without a new chord or a stop/restart being required.

Sorry for not being more specific in the first place, and thanks to those who brought this more into the light than I did!

davide · June 7, 2021, 9:03pm

That would be too messy to incorporate given the different time signatures / grooves / feel etc that each expression has. There would be so many contingencies to address = we have been down this road! This is common amongst any phrase based libraries even classic drum machines in that patters will only change at a certain beat division / end of phrase.

jjfagot · June 8, 2021, 2:49pm

More on negative harmony:
I have collected pictures on how-to youtube videos on negative harmony.
This one is in Spanish, but the music and chords look great, and Jaime explains it very well.

In the image that I share are the addresses of the other 2 videos that I liked a lot too

Bernd · June 8, 2021, 3:57pm

I am trying to stay away from negative youtube videos, they just bring me down
Just kidding, thanks for sharing this, I will put it into my music curriculum that I am working through this year…

sj1 · June 8, 2021, 5:39pm

OK, I get what you are saying wrt. intra-pattern changes.

However, I think I am observing that it is not possible to stay on the same chord, change the Performance, and have that Performance change take place on any of a beat/measure/pattern boundary (while keeping the same chord).

Am I mistaken here?

If not, that seems desirable to fix.

sj1 · June 8, 2021, 5:47pm

Also, I have a question:

Is there anything at all I can send to Scaler from the DAW that will select between different performances?

Or is performance selection only via the GUI right now (v2.4)?

davide · June 8, 2021, 9:06pm

Yes just assign a midi CC or a key from your keyboard to change performances.

Bernd · June 9, 2021, 2:55am

@davide when you’re bored (some day), perhaps you could provide a brief tutorial how you (guys) are using the new MIDI mapping specifically in DAW’s track automation (and not just interactively from a controller). I myself have struggled to make this work.

Which had me provide the original post in this thread, that I wish Scaler would expose dedicated MIDI parameters that the DAW directly recognizes and can make available for automation. As is, you need to create an intermediate MIDI device that simulates the CC, which then you can automate in the DAW. In my version of Ableton (Lite) that’s not even possible because I don’t have the device that manages MIDI controls (I think it’s originally intended to control external MIDI synths).

As is, it was a great accomplishment to have performances and scales selectable via button from MIDI controller in 2.4. But please keep it on your roadmap for some day to support some kind of bank select/program change system comparable to how (some) other plugins handle it.

davide · June 9, 2021, 3:35am

You’re right @Bernd You can’t record that without a midi controller, we are working on a minor point update which expands but we don’t have a midi map overlay for scaler “2” planned.

jjfagot · June 9, 2021, 11:11am

Another “negative youtube video” about negative harmony
Rachmaninoff used a toy tune of Paganini to make great music using negative harmony.

sj1 · June 9, 2021, 11:14am

Are you referring to (from p. 21 of the manual)?:

List of actionable commands:
…
Recall Playback Settings
Load predefined playback settings. Create multiple actions with the Playback Settings you wish to recall, attach controls (MIDI CC or Keyboard shortcut) to each action, then change the playback behaviour of Scaler while performing.
…

If so, I can’t quite figure it out merely from that.

Would it be possible to either elaborate here or provide links to other topics or tutorial vids that would make the process clear?

Thanks!

jamieh · June 9, 2021, 4:29pm

Many setting now can be controlled by a CC knob or button.

EXAMPLE — In Scaler set up a performance –

Right click on the BLUE Perform Title –

Choose the Create Command dropdown menu and you’ll get this —

Move a MIDI controller on your Controller/keyboard (you could also use an iOS TouchOSC or Lemur MIDI controller as well) it will map to that performance —

Set up another (NEW) Performance and right click on the BLUE Perform word -

Choose Create Command Menu –

Move a different control knob/button to map it-

Now you can switch back and forth with those 2 controller buttons/knobs to 2 different performance settings using the control knob/button on your controller –

You can do this with Scales, Performances, Pattern select, etc. You can do that for as many Performances as you need or have controls for.

sj1 · June 9, 2021, 6:04pm

That’s an excellent exposition. Thank you jamieh!

I seem to be noticing that if I have a pad in Section C assigned to a Group other than Global then the performance changes triggered as above do not happen.

Is it correct to say that the process described applies to the Global group only (or Section A only)?

jamieh · June 9, 2021, 6:14pm

It seems so. Global group only as far as I can see.

sj1 · June 9, 2021, 6:17pm

I also note that whatever you set up this way does make it into an Exported XML state file:

  <CommandMapping>
    <Key type="2" midi="3.vJQ." />
    <Command id="22">
      <IToggleLiveSettingsProps id="5">
        <IToggleLiveSettingsProps id="1" type="5"
        expressionSetUuid="32820e1e65084fcc9e0d691b65164b20"
        expressionResolutionId="100"
        expressionPhrasePlayMode="1" />
        <IToggleLiveSettingsProps id="2" scaleLock="0"
        scaleLockMode="2" />
        <IToggleLiveSettingsProps id="3" isVoicingPreviewOn="0"
        voicingProfileId="1" highestNote="75"
        lowestNote="63" />
        <IToggleLiveSettingsProps id="4" isHumanizeOn="0"
        humanizeProfileId="1" />
      </IToggleLiveSettingsProps>
    </Command>
  </CommandMapping>

This is good! So, anything you configure this way can be saved.

I note that most of the XML entry for a mapping is human readable, and would be editable if desired.

However, the Performance choice itself is not included in as readable/editable data (nor is the triggering MIDI message), so trying to set up a complex configuration quickly by using an editor won’t currently work.

Too bad!

sj1 · June 9, 2021, 6:30pm

Though this could be considered a repeat of what I previously wrote, this is a new context (to me!) and so I think it is worth noting that calling up a new Performance this way (as immediately above) will not “take” unless you change chords (or stop and restart the same chord).

I accept David’s comment about how trying to calculate performance changes intra-pattern is a rat’s nest that’s not worth attempting to enter, but I reiterate that being able to have a performance change take place on the next boundary is really important to have.

IOW, a called for performance change needs to be able to be it’s own trigger!

sj1 · June 9, 2021, 7:27pm

BTW, I’ve found that if you create some MIDI clips in Live each with a CC in it (do this by drawing in a clip), you can arrange to program Scaler by triggering a clip just as-if you had pressed a hardware button.

CC Clips 01

Once Scaler is so programmed to accept the CCs as performance triggers, you can then draw the same CCs inside a note-sending clip to fully specify Scaler’s actions wrt. both chord and performance.

You will probably have to offset the perf trigger CCs so that they slightly precede the chord trigger notes.

Did you already discover all this Bernd?

Ctrl Clips 70-77-1.als.mid (7.9 KB)