A bug I can't believe is still in Scaler 2 to this day. (Chord extensions on performance)

Scaler 2 Support
1

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum, but I felt like it was important that I report this bug. I tried to look if anyone reported it but no one seem to have done it ?

It’s a bug I would have expected to be discovered WAY before, it makes no sense for me.

So, the “Peformance” option, only plays normal triads… Even if I have Minor7, Major7, Dim7, Add9, etc etc.

This means, if my chord progression is : Cmin7, Bbmaj7, Abmaj7 ?

The performance (any of them) will only play : Cmin, Bbmaj, Abmaj as basic triads. I tried with any extensions, the only variations here, is when you select inversions. But it still remains normal triads…

The only exception to this? Is if you select a chord progression in the chord progression bank (Songs) with all the different genre of music.

If you see a chord extended, like Min7, or Maj7, INSIDE, the bank of chords ? It will work. The performance will play the additional 7 note, or 9.

So, the performance seems to be accurate in the Chord Progression bank of genres. But when you use Performance in normal chord progression (the one you can build on the bottom of the scaler plugin), filtering by keys and stuff, it ONLY plays normal triads, no matter what the chord extension is.

I really hope this bug is fixed, because I LOVE to write midi with scaler, but I rarely stick to just normal chord triads.

Has anyone ever noticed this ? Or has this been reported? Is there something i’m missing and it’s suppose to be like that?

-Type_Exit

2

Hi @Type_Exit

Welcome to the forum.

I think this is dependent on which performance you have selected. In my experience the Arpeggios play all the notes in the cord, but other performances tend to be restricted to the notes of the chord triad, although the performance may play an open voicing and include notes from different octaves. For example the Andantino performance rages over two octaves plus a third (C2 - E4) playing the I, iii and V notes from the scale.

However, this rule does not seem to apply to the Bass performances: Jazz 3 is C, C(+1 octave), Bb, Ab, G, Ab, F, G.

One issue for me is that all performances with the exception of arpeggios appear to be based on th eroot of the chord and inversions have no impact on the performance. Arpeggios, however, start on the lowest note of the chord, so a C min 11 1st inversion (enharmonic with Eb maj 13) arpeggio starts on Eb and plays all the notes - Eb, G, Bb, C, D, F.

This is a summary of my understanding and I hope it helps your understanding, and a team member may be able to clarify this further or correct any errors that I have made.

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3

Hello Ed66,

Arpeggios are not performance, they are articulations.

Andantino (which is Adagio), still play only triad, even with the voicing you said.

I have 1 chord (Amin7), which is A C E G.

I never see ANY G anywhere, in performances. It just doesn’t show up. It seems like those performances, ONLY works with triad.

But no !! Because, if you take ANY chord (Amin7, or any other), from the SONG bank, the Amin7 plays correctly. It plays the G.

One issue for me is that all performances with the exception of arpeggios appear to be based on th eroot of the chord and inversions have no impact on the performance.

Yes, that’s why I posted this in bug report…

If I chose Amin7, as a chord. It should PLAY the flat 7 (G) in performances. However, it’s only limited to root chord. (Except in the song bank of course).

I feel like this is a bug and should be fixed. The flat 7 of Amin7 (G) does show up if I use the option in voice grouping : Open Voicing.

With this option? It seems like it’s using the G.

All in all, if I pick Amin7, and use performance, the performance should reflect the Aminor7 chord and not only the Aminor triad.

4

I take it back, I see what you mean, could it be a bug?

If you choose Amin 7 from the chordset in song 80s 4 and the performance Andantino then the G is played, but if you simply select the Amin scale and use an Amin 7 chord the G is omitted from the performance.

I have produced a midi clip showing this. The first bar uses the A min 7 from the song 80s 4 and the second an A min 7 from the A min scale.

I have also uploaded the Scaler state for this clip.

Amin 7 chords.mid (428 Bytes)
Amin chords.xml (10.8 KB)

5

Yes exactly !!! It’s most likely a bug or something they forgot to add in.

I’m really surprised no one found out yet, the “Scales function” scales chords and extensions are such a basic function of scaler.

I feel like, they forgot to program the 7, 11, 13 extensions in the regular scales, they only programmed it with basic triads. The inversions (voicings button) DO work though. Only the “Diatonic” button, which is called “Triad” by default when you select it.

The sus2 and sus4 are working, but they are basically triads as well.

6

It may simply be that no-one noticed it when using Scaler, but it is something to check with the team. Hopefully one of the team will pick up on this thread.

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@Tristan Would you mind checking this out and reporting back to me? I think I have noticed but for some reason seemed to make sense to me. If it’s obvious let’s see if we can get it zapped in 2.9.

1 Like
8

Hi @Type_Exit. I see where you are coming from, however this isn’t so much a bug as much as how performances in Scaler 2 have always worked. Phrases and melodies work a similar way in that they interpret a chord as either a major or minor. Performances on the other hand interpret them more as a triad, or just a three note chord depending on your definition of triad. This means depending on how the chord is structured they may still acknowledge inversions, or extensions such as 7ths if you omit the 3rd or 5th (e.g. 1, 5, 7) and of course sus chords.

This is just to ensure wide chord compatibility without requiring dedicated performances for every chord variation/extension. I do appreciate the concern here, however it isn’t really practical at this point to change this behaviour given the number of people using Scaler 2 performances in their current form. It is however feedback we’ve absolutely taken on board for potential future prouct releases, so stay tuned!

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Thanks you for clarifying this @Tristan

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Hi Tristan,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I understand what you are saying, but consider this :

The performance option with extensions is already working in a way, it’s just extremely tedious to get it to work with the chords you want. Because you have to look for that chord in the song bank.

If someone puts up a chord progression (That he can hear by clicking on it, before activating performance). The 7th’s, 9th’s etc will be played, so in a way, it’s deceiving.

But then, using Performance on those chords, will remove any chord extensions in the midi writing.

I feel like, if someone puts a 7th chord, and Scaler doesn’t play the notes of the chord (only in some areas), the plugin isn’t working properly and should be fixed. This is a bug, since performance works with extensions else where in the plugin.

I don’t write much with basic triads unfortunately. :frowning:

I really hope you guys fix this at one point cause I love Scaler so much, it’s an essential tool in my workflow.

1 Like
11

Hi Tristan

I’ve done a little more research based on your reply and to expand on your explanation that the performance is playing the first triad of the chord e.g .if the chord is A2, A3, C3, E3, G3 the performance will be based on A, C, and E, but if the chord is A2 G3, A3 C3 E3 (note that A2 and A3 are the same degree of the scale both are included in the performance but) the performance will be based on A, G, and C as these are the first triad in the chord; and if the chord is C3 E3 G3 A3 (A min 7 1st inversion) the performance is based on C, E, and G

I have attached a Scaler State file and midi output below to illustrate my understanding based A min chords and the Cantabile performance.

Cantabile performances.mid (739 Bytes)
Cantabile Performances.xml (11.9 KB)

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Totally agree with you.

13

I’m confused what you agree with

14

Remember that conversation I had with Davide about Adding BLOAT and NONSENSE to Scaler 2?

People asking for Scaler to be an All-In-One

Well here is my point Proven in this Thread by Dev Team being Lazy and not Coding Properly.
Add more Features…Add more Bugs…Add more Bloat to make the N00bs happy or Fix the Performances to Work Properly

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