Loopy Pro live playing patterns workflow / iOS questions

[fefillo]

Hi, I’m new to Scaler 2 (iOS) and trying to figure out how to incorporate it into my Loopy Pro workflow. I think I got a pretty good idea of how to setup and program Scaler to get the sounds I want, but I’m struggling a bit in terms of how to incorporate it into a “typical” live looping workflow.

I’ve figured out how to create multiple patterns and have them play one after another (by dragging on multiple patterns in main or pad view), and I also learned how to switch between patterns by clicking the green squares on the right in pad view.

Now, here’s a few of the behaviors / functionality I kind of find odd and I’m hoping it’s just me missing something and one of y’all can steer me in the right direction:

1. With DAW SYNC ON, while playing, if you tap a pattern in section C, the patterns stop playing and I can’t find a way to restart playing of any patterns unless I stop and restart play Loopy. Only work around I’ve found if I don’t want to stop my other loops, is to turn DAW Sync off, then manually restart playing on Scaler (but now you have to align to the beat “by hand”). What am I missing? Why wouldn’t the default behavior be to continue playing the patterns or switch patterns when you clink on the names? What if I want to click on pattern 2 to just display it to make some changes on the fly to a chord, but I want it to keep playing?
2. Similar to 1, but on pad view, what’s the logic behind stopping the pattern by clicking on the pattern names?
3. Also, the behavior of being able to drag to select multiple, but having to click on SHIFT to unselect is kinda odd. Why not do something like long press to select / unselect?
4. If I’m adjusting “Playback Timings” in the seq view, sometimes the Scaler pattern will get out of sync with the Loppy “master” quantization, and again the only way to re-sync it I’ve found is to stop and restart Loopy.
5. If I wanted multiples of X pattern to be played, like if trying to create a whole song structure, like let’s say I wanted my song to be pattern A, A, B, C, A, A, B, B… Is my only option to do that inside of Scaler by copying/duplicating individual patterns in the SEQ view?
6. Is there any internal volume or EQ for the built in sounds? I find some of the sounds to be very quiet and others very loud. Would love to be able to tweak / save internally to my preference.
7. Any way to select sounds through midi? Like is there a hidden PC or CC system so that I can switch from a specific Bass to a Piano sound for example? I would love to build a short list of my favorite sounds and be able to switch between them without having to browse through the drop down menus.
8. In pad view, if I duplicate a pattern, it adds a bunch of “Rest” chords to the original and duplicate patterns.
9. In pad view, it would be great to be able to remove or duplicate multiple patterns at once, but the only Shift action available when multiple patterns are selected is “Unselect All Patterns”.

Thanks in advance for your insights. Scaler seems like a great app so far!

• Fefo

[GoliathGrouper]

Hey, Fefo - good to connect with you here, as well as on the Loopy Pro Facebook forum! And thank you for your help there, too. I agree with you that LP and S2 are miraculous; they give me more creative pleasure than I thought possible.

I’m stuck in some of the same “alignment” quandaries as you are. I’m going to give you two responses. The first will be my experience with “alignment” problems similar to the ones you’re facing, then separately, my answers to several of your specific questions.

I’m modestly adept at using Scaler 2 in my DAW (Studio One) on my Mac, but I’m struggling with getting it right in live situations in Loopy Pro on my iPad. I’m pretty sure my struggles in the LP-S2 combination are just lack of aptitude in both apps. I’ll describe my basic-basic-stupid problem, and tell you the best solution I’ve found so far.

My basic setup: I’ve constructed a classic 32-bar jazz pop song in AABA style. I’ve got three instances of S2 opened and live synced in LP - a chord progression leader on a synth, a bass follower, and an alto sax follower, each performing different performances. I’ve got a drum loop on a fourth channel. I’ve set the outputs on each of these channels so that they’ll record into different colored loops - drums will only record into orange, the synth into yellow, the bass into lime, etc. That way, I can adjust the mix better.

Problem #1: The Scaler instances don’t automatically sync to each other or to the master clock. So that when I’m experimenting with the chord progression - changing octaves or inversions in the Leader, and I want to see how those changes sound in the followers - I’ve got to wait until the progression cycles around to the start again and “hand-sync” them, i.e., press the play button on the second or third instance of S2 as soon as the Leader gets back to the start of Bar 1. Whereas what I think I should be able to do is have those followers pick up the progression wherever the Leader is in the cycle (Bar 6 or 13 or wherever).

Problem #2: Similar to #1. When I’ve got my progression and performances set, I want to be able to record them into loops, so I’ve got a song I can improvise or sing over. I think I should be able to tap “record” into my three Scaler-attached loops (synth-yellow, bass-lime, and sax-blue) and have them all start recording simultaneously as soon as the progression cycles around to the start of Bar 1. But I can’t find a way to do that.

My best description for what happens is “spotty.” When I “hand-sync” all the Scaler instances so they’re playing in alignment, and I tap the three output loops quickly to record at the start of the cycle, they each record one-at-a-time. That is, first the synth-yellow loop records the entire 32-bar cycle, then the bass-lime loop records the 32-bar cycle, then the alto-blue loop records. So I’ve got to get through 96 or even 128 bars before the whole thing records into the loops.

Moreover, there’s no real indication that these loops are even going to record, because only one loop at a time is showing its progress. Remember, I’ve tapped the yellow, lime, and blue closely together. But only the yellow loop is showing that it’s going to start recording when the progression cycles around again - the other two loops are blank. Only when the yellow starts recording does the lime begin to show that it will record next. And so on.

I don’t understand the behavior. But more importantly, it doesn’t seem conducive to live performance.

My workaround: Well, basically, the best I’ve been able to do is to treat each instance of Scaler as a separate live instrument that I’m looping one-at-time. That’s not a bad thing; after all, that’s kind of what you’re doing when you’re looping live, anyway: You’ll lay down a drum, then maybe a chord sequence, then a bass, then you’ll improvise on top of it. It just seems unnecessarily cumbersome to me if you’ve already got all of this established in multiple instances of Scaler.

Then again, that may be the purpose of Loopy Pro’s sequencing and recording capabilities: These arrangements may really need to be worked out and recorded in advance, to facilitate the live performance.

[GoliathGrouper]

Like I said, I’m no expert. But I’ve got thoughts (and at least one real solution) about several of your questions:

Q: With DAW SYNC ON, while playing, if you tap a pattern in section C, the patterns stop playing and I can’t find a way to restart playing of any patterns unless I stop and restart play Loopy. Only work around I’ve found if I don’t want to stop my other loops, is to turn DAW Sync off, then manually restart playing on Scaler (but now you have to align to the beat “by hand”). What am I missing? Why wouldn’t the default behavior be to continue playing the patterns or switch patterns when you clink on the names? What if I want to click on pattern 2 to just display it to make some changes on the fly to a chord, but I want it to keep playing?

A: Per my earlier reply, my only solution has been to treat Scaler instances as separate live instrument performances that don’t automatically align to each other. I hope someone can provide a better solution, if there is one. I haven’t bothered with Scaler DAW Sync in LP, only in my DAW.

Q: If I’m adjusting “Playback Timings” in the seq view, sometimes the Scaler pattern will get out of sync with the Loppy “master” quantization, and again the only way to re-sync it I’ve found is to stop and restart Loopy.

A: I realized I was making a basic mistake in Scaler, and perhaps you are, too. In Sequence view, it’s crucial to remember that each pattern has its own independent playback timing. That means if you’ve set the last bar of Pattern 1 (for example, your song’s “A” section) to play two chords in that measure at two beats each, that doesn’t automatically propagate to Pattern 2, your “B” section. That playback will still default to one chord / four beats in that measure (or whatever you’ve set in your global settings). If you’re changing playbacks, you need to do it separately for each pattern.

Q: If I wanted multiples of X pattern to be played, like if trying to create a whole song structure, like let’s say I wanted my song to be pattern A, A, B, C, A, A, B, B… Is my only option to do that inside of Scaler by copying/duplicating individual patterns in the SEQ view?

A: As of Sept. 2022, this sort of repeat-pattern functionality didn’t exist (How to make a pattern play a specified number of times - #4 by jamieh). Among the various workarounds, simply copying into a new pattern seems to be the simplest solution.

Q: Any way to select sounds through midi? Like is there a hidden PC or CC system so that I can switch from a specific Bass to a Piano sound for example? I would love to build a short list of my favorite sounds and be able to switch between them without having to browse through the drop down menus.

A: Yes! I was trying to do this with Midi Guitar 2 in Loopy Pro, and found that it’s pretty simple. I know a version of the following will work: Add a Hardware Input channel for your controller. Add a Midi Channel that will act as the “translator” of your hardware into Midi signals. Add Audio Unit input channels for each sound you’ll want to generate from your Midi controller - say, a piano and a violin. In the Midi Channel, in the Destinations section, press “+”, then add each of those Audio Units as destinations. In effect, your hardware channel is talking to your Midi channel, which is talking to your Audio Unit-sound channels. You can do this for as many audio outputs as you like.

In this scenario, your controller will play both those output sounds at the same time. So the last step is to set up one or two (or more) widgets that will mute the piano when you want the violin, and mute the violin when you want the piano. Again, you can set up as many instruments as you like this way - you’ll just need “mute/play” options for each of them.

Hopefully, the attached photo of my Midi Guitar setup will make sense and be helpful. The third & fourth channels from the left are my hardware inputs. (Ignore the second from left; it’s the iPad mic.) The ToneStack Pro channel is for live guitar. Midi Guitar 2 is my Midi hardware input (the same live guitar, acting as a Midi controller). It runs through the far left channel, which is MG2’s “translation layer.” You’ll see I have six different Audio Units set up as output destinations. Further to the right are the actual destinations - separate channels for each of those instruments. These are set up so they’ll only record into distinct loops: My bass can only record into orange, my synth can only play into lime, etc. This is for live mixing control. Finally and importantly, I’ve set up two radio dial widgets. The most important is the pink one on top, which allows me to use my foot switch to switch from instrument to instrument, muting all except the one I’m playing. (The bottom radio dial also switches from instrument to instrument to let me control volume on each with my foot pedal.)

I think you can replicate this kind of setup with any midi controller substituting for Midi Guitar 2.

It sounds more complicated than it is. As is often the case, John Paul UK has a great tutorial on this: https://youtu.be/sfK6SC46ki8?si=_6LjvwapBEaUKPol

Q: In pad view, if I duplicate a pattern, it adds a bunch of “Rest” chords to the original and duplicate patterns.

A: I had the same issue. In my case, I’m pretty sure this was happening because I’m working on a very old (2018) iPad with limited memory, so it’s glitchy on this kind of stuff. My best workaround has been to just use “Shift” and “Remove Chord” to delete mistakes, and move/copy the correct chords into the rest spaces. The ultimate solution is probably a new iPad.

[GoliathGrouper]

I’m getting better at answering my own stupid questions before others can point my naïveté out to me.

Anyway, Fefo’s post reminded me that switching DAW Sync on will automatically align the Scaler instances to each other and to Loopy Pro’s clock.

So that’s solved - thank you, Fefo! I still don’t know why the clips only record one-at-time.